7 Most Common Disabilities Among Women Veterans

Lindy Nash: Hi there! And welcome to another edition of Facebook
Live, from Chisholm, Chisholm & Kilpatrick here in Providence Rhode Island. My name is Lindy Nash, and I'm an attorney
here at the firm. And I'm joined today by my colleagues Kayla
D'Onofrio, and Amy Odom. Today we are going to be talking about the
seven most common conditions affecting women veterans. So we're very excited to get to this topic,
and if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to leave us a comment in the box
below, and we'll do our best to address it. But if we can't get to it, feel free to check
out our website, www.cck-law.com. We have so many great resources there, blog
posts, graphics, really a ton of information. So don't hesitate to check that out. So with that set, I think we can get started. Let's start with just some kind of general
statistics about women veterans.

Kayla, why don't you start us off. Kayla D'Onofrio: Sure. So the female population of veterans only
takes up about ten percent of the total veteran population. So it is pretty small currently. We have seen increase in it over the past
hundred or so years as certain laws and restrictions have been lifted. According to a 2015 study, it was anticipated
that the numbers would increase by about 18,000 women veterans over the next ten years. And then the next 25 or 2 years, they're expecting
that number to look more like 16.3% of all living veterans. So, we are seeing a rapid and steady increase
in the number of female veterans. Another very interesting thing about female
veterans is it's very young population. Again, because we're seeing an increase in
the women that are joining the military, in the services. About 80% of the female population is between
ages of 25 and 64 years old. So they are very young. And we're also seeing that more than half
of them are involved in the more recent war. So within the gulf war era, we're seeing more
than half our female veterans. Lindy: Wow. Thank you. A ton of excellent information.

Amy, why don't you tell us a little bit about
disabilities that affect women veterans and what they see kind of on a daily basis. Amy Odom: Well, sure. As of 2018, approximately half a million disabled
women veterans were in the United States. That's about 23% of all veterans having service-connected
disability. And that number rose about 30,000 in just
2018 alone. 54% of those women have a service-connected
disability or disabilities that are rated 50% or above, which is pretty astounding when
you think about it.

Another pretty interesting statistic is that
3% more women veterans have a service-connected disability than do men. Lindy: Wow, fascinating. Well, thank you very much. So now that we've touched on some of those
statistics, why don't we get into the main portion of our broadcast today, the Seven
Most Common Disabilities for Women Veterans. So these top seven disabilities actually account
for about 30% of all service-connected conditions in women. So that just shows how prevalent they are. So why don't we start of with PTSD and I think
Amy will tell us about that. Amy: Sure. So PTSD is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It's a mental health disability that affects
people who have been exposed to a difficult stressor. And about 20% of women of the Gulf War veteran
population have PTSD, and 12% of all women in all the population have PTSD. The way that we see it generally in the veterans's
context is that women experience some sort of stressor in service that might be combat,
it might be a car accident, or some other very stressful experience.

And a lot of times, it's military sexual trauma. Which is a difficulty that women face disproportionately
in the military. It can be challenging to prove a claim for
PTSD because you have to have credible supporting evidence of an in-service stressor. And for especially military sexual trauma,
that's not something that you wouldn't– normally see documented in the treatment records. But for other types of stressors, such as
like car accidents or perhaps something being fired upon in Iraq or something along those
lines, you would normally find that in the service treatment records.

And VA has recently, well as of 2008, has
lowered the evidentiary requirement for showing that you had a stressor like something like
being fired on. As long as you can show that you experience
fear of a hostile military or a terrorist activity, VA will accept your statements. It still remains a little more difficult to
show that you suffer personal assault in service. In that case, VA will require something other
than your own statements showing that there was a personal trauma in service. And that includes not only military sexual
trauma but also something like physical abuse, like domestic abuse, or something like that
that also affects women disproportionately. In order to prove your stressor in that case,
you'll need something more like perhaps a statement from a friend, saying that you shared
some details with him or her around the time of the assault. But another way you can show it is by showing
that there was some sort of behavioral change in service. That prior to this stressor, perhaps your
performance was very good, you didn't have many problems, you didn't experience any type
of depression or anything like that. But then after the stressor, you can see in
your personal records that your performance started to deteriorate, and perhaps you started
to show a little more depression or withdrawal after the stressor.

Lindy: And those are known as markers, right? Amy: That's right. They're called behavioral changes or markers. And veterans who file PTSD claims based on
a military sexual trauma or other personal assault will likely be afforded a VA examination. The regional office will ask the veteran to
attend an examination with a mental health professional from the veteran's benefits administration
who will take the veteran's history, review the claims file, and will look for those types
of markers in the claims file in the service treatment records.

Lindy: Right. And sometimes markers aren't always really
clear, right? So it can be even starting substance abuse
problems, or good behavior and bad behavior in service. Amy: That's right. Lindy: And even locations of pregnancy test
or STD test can be markers. Anything along those lines to show that maybe
some sort of assault happened. Amy: That's right. Or request to transfer your duty station is
one thing. Lindy: Right. Yes. Definitely. Amy: So basically anything that shows that
there was some sort of change in the veteran's life following the stressor. Lindy: And I know there was a period of time
where proper protocol wasn't always followed in military sexual trauma cases.

And so maybe, you could touch on the history
of that and kind of how that's evolved. Amy: Yes, absolutely. We had just talked about military sexual trauma
and other types of personal assaults are not usually documented in the service treatment
records. And VA adjudicator are generally always looking
for some sort of documentation of the in-service injury. So, these claims were being disproportionately
denied. In November 2013, the American Civil Liberties
Union and SWAN, the Service Women's Action Network, published a study that showed that
there was this– that VA was denying a PTSD based on MST, Military Sexual Trauma claims,
at significantly lower rates every year from 2008 to 2012. And there were 10 percentage points between
the denial rate of PTSD claims for men and for women which is a pretty staggering difference. Shortly after that study was published, VA
did make some internal changes to their training and claims processing procedures, and it was
looking up like these claims were going to be handled better. But unfortunately in 2018, VA's own office
of inspector general found that there were still a lot of problems with the processing
of these particular claims based on military sexual trauma.

The OIG found that half of MST claims were
improperly processed. And it was for things like the adjudicators being specialized or trained on MST claims which is what part of the initiative
was following the ACLU and SWAN report VA was just marking claims as contradictory
without doing any type of clarification or follow up. So that there seem to be still problems in
this area, and hopefully they'll be resolved soon. Lindy: Great. And then to kind of wrap up the discussion
of PTSD and military sexual trauma cases, as an advocate, do you have any advice as
to how best to go through your PTSD claim or MST claim? Maybe certain pieces of evidence that are
really helpful. I know you kind of touched on maybe buddy
statements or things along those lines. But any advice to someone who is filing one
of these claims. Amy: Yes. My advice would be to give the VA as much
information as possible about the circumstances surrounding the assault in terms of any type
of changes in your behavior following the assault, anybody you might have told, if you
can find somebody that you told about it, and get a statement from that person, that
would be great.

Just think about ways in which your life may
have changed following the assault and that would be helpful evidence to prove your stressor. Also, if you are currently seeking treatment
and have been seeing somebody about any current residuals of the assault, perhaps getting
an opinion from that person to asking your therapist or your doctor to write a letter
confirming that you suffer from symptoms that are related to a personal assault, will be
actually really great evidence. Lindy: Awesome. Thank you. So why don't we move on to the next disability,
which would be back concerns and back issues. So I believe in 2015, back conditions were
actually the most commonly diagnosed concern in the VA system. So Kayla, why don't you walk us through some
information about musculosksletal conditions in the back. Kayla: Yes. So about 58% of women were treated from musculoskeletal
conditions in the back in 2015, according to that study. Whereas only about 47% of men were actually
being treated. So the number of women being treated for back
conditions is actually a little bit higher. There are three different disabilities that
are most commonly seen in women. The first is cervical or lumbosacral strain,
which is basically caused by overuse and it's a microscopic tearing of the muscles in the
tendons.

Which is really the most common cause of back
pain that we see. VA will rate this sort of condition based
on a range of motion testing. So when you do to go exams, they'll be looking
at things like how much you can bend forward, or backwards, or side to side. And that's how they're going to rate the condition. And I'll get a little bit more into sort of
how the examinations do work a little bit later for all the back conditions. The second most common one that we see is
intervertebral disc syndrome which is when the disc between the vertebrae start to break
down. It's usually made worse when there is prolonged
sitting and standing and bending down. And this is rated a little bit differently
than the normal lumbosacral strain or the cervical strain.

This is rated based in incapacitating episodes. So they're looking at really bed rest, which
has it's own set of problems. Bed rest can actually worsen IVDS for a lot
of veterans. It's really not prescribed by doctors. But that is how VA physicians and VA adjudicators
are going to be looking at that condition. However, if range of motion testing would
result on a higher rating, VA will rate it based on range of motion.

The third most common one that we see is the
degenerative arthritis of the spine, excuse me. Which is just when the cartilage between the
joints and the discs in the neck in the back start to break down. Again, just caused by overuse, repetitive
stress on the back, and it's another very common cause for pain. Lindy: And this might be kind of self-explanatory,
but why do you think that these types of orthopedic conditions are so frequent in veterans in
general. In women but and in general. Kayla: I think just the nature of what military
service is. A lot of it is very physical, it's very demanding
on the body. So it does cause a lot of breakdown. We also see it secondary to a lot of conditions. Specifically, if you're looking at maybe foot
or knee conditions where the veteran now needs to walk with a limp, it could cause secondary
issues with the back and the spine.

Lindy: Great. And I know you touched on this briefly, but
could you walk us through a VA exam. Like your schedule for an exam for your back. How would that normally go? And maybe any advice to someone who is scheduled
for one of these exams. Kayla: Right. Like I said, VA does largely rate back conditions
based on range of motion testing. So they're going to be asking you to do a
lot of physical testing. How many degrees you can move forward, backward,
side to side.

They should also be looking at things like
how severe your condition is during flare-ups, or with repetitive use over time. So they shouldn't just be looking at sort
of objectively what's going on that day. They should be asking you questions about
how it affects your daily life and how severe it is on a day to day basis. As well as what causes flare-ups, what sort
of things will trigger it. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's
a lot of secondary conditions for back, so if you are at an examine, you do have some
secondary conditions like radiculopathy or in severe cases, incontinence. That's something that you do want to honest
with your examiner about. And it's always really important to be honest
about your symptoms. So, don't over exaggerate them, but don't
diminish what you're experiencing either, because it's what VA really does rely on when
they're making decisions on these claims.

Lindy: Definitely, yes. During exams is definitely not the time to
be your most tough self. Be honest and explain to them what you're
experiencing and even if something you may not really love to talk about, it's really
important that you're honest with the VA examiner, because as Kayla said, VA exams are often
found very probative, and they rely on those very frequently. Okay. So any last pieces of advice to someone who
is filing a claim for an increased rating for their back condition? Any pieces of advice for what to submit to
be most helpful? Kayla: Yes.

So like any normal service connection claim,
VA's going to be looking for three things. One is evidence that the condition exists. So in most cases, a diagnosis of the condition,
or at least evidence of pain. They're going to be looking at something that
happened in service, and then they're looking for a nexus opinion linking that condition
to whatever happened in service. So medical records showing treatment for a
back condition especially if they show continuous treatment from service, can be super helpful.

Lay evidence can also be very helpful, especially
if you're looking at things like incapacitating episodes, how long are you really on bed rest,
how often are you kind of confined to a recliner or a bed because your back is so severe that
you can't move. So lay evidence from you as well as family
members or friends who can witness how severe it is can be really helpful. Lindy: Great. Okay. Let's move on to number three. The most common disability, major depressive
disorder.

So I believe that women actually experience
this 1.7 times, or they're more likely to experience it than men. Is that right? Amy: That's true. Lindy: Okay. So why don't you tell us more about MDD. Amy: So, major depressive disorder's actually
the second most common service-connected disability among female veterans. Lindy: Wow. Amy: Right now, there are 26,500 cases of
depression among women. And it makes sense that depression is something
that is associated with military service. Because a lot of times, people are separated
from their families for long periods of time, they're, especially– in the more recent conflicts,
there have been multiple deployments.

People have been expected to deploy several
times. But also, women face disproportionately again,
issues with harassment from their peers and sometimes superiors. And a lot of times too, depression can be
the result of some other service-connected disability. So for example, if a veteran hurts her knee
in service and is unable to do the types of things that she once enjoyed as a result of
the knee, oftentimes that can lead to a diagnosable depressive disorder. Lindy: Great. And then I know, we touched on this earlier
when talking about PTSD. But we mentioned that you do need a stressor
for PTSD cases. Do you need a stressor in these case? With MDD? Amy: No, you don't. That's the difficult thing about a PTSD claim
is that the VA requires more corroboration of what happened to you in service if your
diagnosed disability is PTSD, than it does if your diagnosed disability is anything other
than PTSD. So even when we're talking about military
sexual trauma, technically under the law, if the thing that happened to you in service,
has to do with a personal assault, but the resulting diagnosis associated with your residuals
of that assault is major depressive disorder or generalized anxiety disorder as opposed
to PTSD, technically VA under the law isn't supposed to require that high level of corroboration
that you need if you have PTSD.

It's unclear to me why VA treats these two
topics so differently, but the court of veteran's appeals, a couple of decades ago, agreed that
it was appropriate and so that's the state of the law. Lindy: Okay. And then to wrap up our discussion on depression,
again, any other pieces of advice or great pieces of evidence you could submit to help
your claim? Amy: Well, the best evidence is always documentation
in the service treatment record. So if a veteran sought treatment or complained
to a doctor in service that she was experiencing low feelings or even anxiety or anything like
that, then that's going to be your best evidence. But a lot of times, people don't seek treatment
for having the blues or something like that that can actually be indicative of major depressive
disorder or turn in to something like that. So in those cases, the best evidence that
you can submit is statements from yourself or anybody else who has personal knowledge
of how you felt back then or how you acted back then, and an explanation for why you
did not seek treatment which could be something as simple as "I didn't realize I had a problem." Lindy: Great.

Okay. Let's move on to number four which would bee migraine
headaches. And Kayla, if you could explain to us a little
bit about migraine headaches and how women develop those from service. Kayla: Sure. So migraine headaches are obviously very severe
condition and they do come with a lot of residual issues. When someone experiences a migraine, they
usually also experience things like photosensitivity or noise sensitivity, nausea, vomiting, lightheadedness. So it can be a really debilitating condition
for a lot of women, and a lot of veterans in general. So currently about 24,000 female veterans
are receiving benefits for migraines. So, there's a lot. Some of the most common reasons that we see
it being related to service is actually secondary to other conditions. So we see it commonly with neck conditions
for example when they have a lot of pain in their neck, it may cause issues with headaches.

We also see it secondary to a lot of psychiatric
conditions. So with increased stress, sometimes those
will trigger migraines as well. Lindy: Great. And again, how is it best to build a strong
case for migraine headaches. Kayla: So when VA is rating migraine headaches,
what they're really looking at is how prostrating as they call it, the migraines are. Which really just means how debilitating it
is. Lindy: Right. Kayla: So, I think lay evidence is probably
going to be one of your most important pieces of evidence here. And describing how severe your symptoms are. It can be really helpful to talk specifically
about the things that you're not able to do when you do have a migraine. Because they're looking at does it require
to basically be in bed in a dark room with no noise. Or, does it affect you to the point where
you can't complete your normal activities of daily living like cooking or cleaning,
or you have to call out of work. Some sort of economic inadaptability. So talking about how severe it is and how
it prevents you from doing those day to day things, and how frequently that happens is
I think going to be one of the most important pieces of evidence.

Lindy: Great. And I feel like this can probably set for
all of the common disabilities we're talking about, but when you are scheduled for that
VA exam, again, be as honest as possible. If your headaches do– they are incapacitating,
you have to lay down in a dark room for an hour, it affects your ability to work, you
often miss work, you leave early, anything along those lines, be as honest as possible
because that is all taken into account. It's relied on extremely heavily by the VA
and will be a crucial part of your case. So again, at all VA exams be as honest and
forthright as possible. Kayla: Absolutely. Lindy: Great. Okay. So let's move on to number five which will
be gynecological conditions. And I believe 43% of all VHA diagnosed conditions
for women involve at least one reproductive health condition.

So, Amy, why don't we discuss that? Amy: So, the VA Schedule for rating disabilities
recognizes a variety of conditions including like endometriosis, polycystic ovarian syndrome,
those types of really pretty common diseases and disabilities among women, The problem
though is that most of those disabilities are maxed out at 30%. In other words, you can't get a rating higher
than 30%. And that rating is available– disability
rating is available after you've proven that the disability is somehow related to service. And it doesn't have to be related to something
that happened in service. So that's a really important thing to remember
especially with gynecological conditions. There doesn't have to be some sort of like,
service-related injury that you suffered in service in order to have gynecological condition,
service-connected.

Rather if the disease first began, first manifested
in service, then that's enough to get service connection. And the rationale behind that is that VA benefits
are kind of a form of worker's comp benefits, to keep it simple. And a service member's workday never ends. So everything that happens to the service
member while she is in the military is considered service connection. So if you have endometriosis and it was first
diagnosed in service, then you are entitled to benefits, even though there wasn't any
type of injury that caused the endometriosis.

But once you have established service connection,
then you go on to well, what's the disability rating. And as we were just discussing, for a disease
like endometriosis, that maximum rating is 30%. It doesn't matter if it's so severe that you
are laid up in bed for a week with cramps and are totally debilitated by it, or if you
have cramps occasionally that are moderate and don't keep you debilitated for a week,
as long as it's not controlled by medication, you get 30%.

So that is I think a major flaw in the schedule
for rating gynecological problems. Lindy: And just really quick, why do you think
that is? That it maxes out at 30%. Amy: So I think that part of the reason is
that– Lindy: Not to get too political. Amy: It's been around for a while, it was
probably written and developed by men. Which is not to say that men, there are no
men in this world who understand gynecological conditions. There are many, many fine gynecologists out
there who are men. But another issue with it too is that VA hasn't
had a ton of experience relatively with these types of issues. Because women have not been in the VA benefit
system based on their own service in the numbers that they have more recently. My hope is that this area will continue to
develop and grow and to become a little bit more representative of the wide array of severity
of these types of disabilities. Lindy: Great. I know you touched on this briefly. But just to be clear about it.

What are some ways that your gynecological
condition could start from service, or some common examples that we see? Amy: Well, certainly a veteran could experience
a traumatic injury that results in an injury to the ovaries or the uterus. Lindy: Yes. Amy: And not to circle back to this, but one
way that that might happen is through personal assaults. So that's an important thing to remember in
pursuing and reviewing these claims as well. I would wager to guess that most of these
disabilities, it's just that they began while the veteran was in service, and it has nothing
to do with anything that actually happened in terms of injuries, but it just was a disability
that began that. Another thing to keep in mind is that Gulf
War veterans and by Gulf War mean both the first Persian Gulf War and Iraq and more recently
and even today. Gulf war veterans who experience unexplained
gynecological issues, in other words, symptoms that can't be attributed to a known diagnosis,
those veterans are also entitled to service connection for those problems, because the
law will presume that since it can't be explained, it has to do with something that you were
exposed to in the gulf, in the Persian gulf.

Lindy: I think we even have a couple of clients
who maybe had children during service. And then certain secondary issue stem from
maybe something that went wrong during labor, or anything kind of after that. And you can get service-connected that way. So even things that you may not think, "Oh,
it's not directly due to service." But if you were in service and you had a child
or anything along those lines, that will count for service connection.

Amy: That's true. Lindy: Great. And then did you want to touch on– I know
IVF treatments have kind of been brought up recently. And so can you discuss anything about IVF
treatment for service-connected conditions stemming from gynecological conditions. Amy: Yes. So just recently, VA has approved paying for
in vitro fertilization for veterans who suffer from infertility as a result of a service-connected
gynecological condition. That's really a major breakthrough because
a lot of women suffer and previously couldn't find any help from the VA in starting a family. Lindy: That's great. Okay. Thank you. Why don't we move on to our next common disability? That would be bronchial asthma. So, Kayla, I believe that over 10,000 veterans
are diagnosed with bronchial asthma and actually receive VA benefits. Is that right? Kayla: Correct. Lindy: Great. And so, can we discuss maybe why that's so
common among women veterans. Kayla: Yes.

So like we had talked about earlier and like
Amy just mentioned, more than half of our female veterans have served in the Gulf War. Lindy: Right. Kayla: So I think a majority of the reason
we're seeing these issues is that they're exposed to things in the Persian Gulf that
are causing respiratory symptoms. So, under the law, you are presumed to be
entitled to service connection for respiratory conditions If they have that unexplained etiology or
pathophysiology like Amy had just previously talked about a little bit more. We also see related to burn pit exposure. So if you served post 9/11 in the South West
Asia theater of operations, you may have been exposed burn pits.

So you're inhaling all sorts of toxins and
carcinogens and smoke and particulate matter which can cause a lot of other respiratory
issues as well. Lindy: Okay. And so what are some good ways to be able
to prove exposure or to prove that you were around burn pits or what can people submit
as evidence to demonstrate that? Kayla: Service records can be really helpful. So if you have service records that do put
you in a location where you might be presumed entitled to these benefits, those are always
going to be helpful. Lay evidence, again, is something that can
be really important in these cases. Particularly if you were exposed to burn pits,
having lay evidence discussing how you were exposed to those burn pits, how frequently,
how close you were to them. Those can be really helpful for VA adjudicators.

Lindy: Great. Okay. So let's move on to our last condition. Number seven, this is tinnitus, or tinnitus,
depending on how you pronounce it. But it is a hearing condition, so I often
think of it as kind of that constant ringing in your ears. It often comes along with service-connection
for hearing loss claim. So we usually see them kind of claimed at
the same time. Or if service connection for hearing loss
has been granted, usually tinnitus would be granted as well. It kind of depends, but you usually see them
hand in hand. And I believe it's the most commonly claimed
condition in all of VA benefit system which is fascinating. So Amy, why don't you discuss tinnitus– do
you use tinnitus, or tinnitus. Amy: Tinnitus.
Lindy: Tinnitus. Okay. Amy: Yes. I say tinnitus Lindy: So, why is tinnitus most commonly rated
at 10%? And maybe discuss the diagnostic code for
it. Amy: Well, it's most commonly rated at 10%
because that's the only rating you can get for it. There are of course exceptions to every rule,
and in really extraordinary circumstances, it's possible that you can get more than 10%.

But that's really difficult to prove and unlikely
to succeed in most cases. So that's why the VA ratings will only recognize
at a 10% rating for tinnitus. But something to keep in mind is that, sometimes
when the tinnitus is– I just said tinnitus, Lindy: I'm messing you up. Amy: Sometimes, the tinnitus is so extraordinary
that it leads to depression or anxiety. Difficulty communicating with others. And then in that case, there's always the
possibility of secondary service connection for the anxiety or depression. Lindy: And in terms of proving your claim
for tinnitus, I know– I feel like in our practice, we see all the time that maybe tinnitus
would be denied because perhaps the veteran didn't start experiencing it until many years
after service.

Is that a good reason to deny like any hearing
loss claim? Amy: Not in every case. The first thing about proving claims for tinnitus
is that tinnitus is a little bit unique in that you don't need a diagnosis. Because just like you are competent to say,
"My knee hurts," in other words, you have enough– you don't need medical training to
be able to say, "My knee hurts." You don't need medical training to say that
"I have ringing in my ears." And that is enough to have a diagnosis of
tinnitus. So that's something unique about it. But the other thing that's unique about it
is that VA, and VA examiners often say that if it didn't begin in service, then it can't
possibly be related to the type of hearing– or I'm sorry, the type of acoustic trauma
or noise exposure that veterans are subject to.

And that's not necessarily true in all cases. There is a lot of emerging research out there
that says that it is possible that the type of noise exposure that veterans receive in
service can affect the nerves inside the ear in such a way that it doesn't actually register
until many years later. So if you're a veteran who has been denied
service connection for tinnitus, tinnitus, or hearing loss, simply because it didn't
begin in service, you are best bet is to get on the internet, track down those articles
and send them to the VA for reconsideration. And especially important one called Noise
in Military Service from the Institute of Medicine. It's available, I believe even on VA's website. Lindy: Yes. I think we cite to that sometimes and I was
just reading it earlier today. So it is definitely available. I would probably just Google it. Okay, great. So we have gone through the seven most common
disabilities that affect women veterans. And so I guess in closing, Amy and Kayla,
do you have any last pieces of advice or words of wisdom for any female veterans out there
looking for help or guidance? Did we hit on everything? Amy: Well, you had– yes.

I would just say, if you need help with your
claims, you can contact us. Or you can contact your local disabled American
veterans representative. There are a lot of new rules coming in to
play now. And the VA system, the claims adjudication
system is supposed to be veteran-friendly and very helpful to veterans. But it's actually very difficult system to
navigate. So don't be afraid to ask for help. Lindy: Definitely. Yes, we are here for you if you need anything
and as our colleagues at the DAV, and it's always great to reach out for help.

And don't be afraid to do so. So with that, I think we are wrapping up our
Facebook Live today. Again, if you have any questions, feel free
to call us or leave a message on our Facebook Live. You can check on our website again, www.cck-law.com. Again, a ton of information on there with
blogs, graphics, really helpful information. So with that, we'll see you next time. Thanks. [END].

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